Can anyone tell me....

[Lisa]

WHY HFCS is in bread and bologna?

(No, *I* don't eat bologna)

[Rebecca]

Because it's in everything.

[Rebecca]

It's cheap and addictive.

[Lisa]

Does bread really need it?

Come on.

[Rebecca]

And frustrating.

There are breads out there that don't have it. You have to read labels.

[Dar]

I like bologna.

:run:


Do you have a bread machine?

[Lisa]

Bologna?

Seriously.

[Rebecca]

Does bread really need it?

Come on.
No.

[Lisa]

I like bologna.

:run:


Do you have a bread machine?
I do. And I use it.

This is the crappy white bread that Cliff likes.

I eat whole grain.

[Rebecca]

Bologna?

Seriously.
Seriously.

Start reading labels. You will be amazed at how many products it's in. :nono:

[Lisa]

And I never even thought about it until I heard you guys talking about it here.

Now, it am noticing it IS everywhere.

[Alie]

I read this book the Omnivore's Delimma this summer and it talked about that. Why they add HFCS to everything is because basically our farmers only grow corn and soy. And since its so damn cheap and addictive they put it in everything so people will keep eating it and the farmers can keep growing it.

*snipped from a NYT article about the book*

Big agribusiness has Washington in its pocket. The reason its titans want to keep corn cheap and plentiful, Pollan explains, is that they value it, above all, as a remarkably inexpensive industrial raw material. Not only does it fatten up a beef steer more quickly than pasture does (though at a cost to ourselves and cattle, which haven't evolved to digest corn, and are therefore pre-emptively fed antibiotics to offset the stresses caused by their unnatural diet); once milled, refined and recompounded, corn can become any number of things, from ethanol for the gas tank to dozens of edible, if not nutritious, products, like the thickener in a milkshake, the hydrogenated oil in margarine, the modified cornstarch that binds the pulverized meat in a McNugget and, most disastrously, the ubiquitous sweetener known as high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS).

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/23/books/review/23kamp.html?ei=5088&en=3c0958f57a4112b7&ex=1303444800&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

[Rebecca]

I have that book. It's waiting for me. I'm afraid to read it, afraid I'm just going to get really pisses off. :laugh:

[Lisa]

:rant:

Is there a petition or something?


/All the sudden all worked up about this

[Dar]

I have a recipe (somewhere) for a bread machine Wonder equivalent bread. It uses potato flakes and evaporated milk and is really quite good.

[Alie]

I have that book. It's waiting for me. I'm afraid to read it, afraid I'm just going to get really pisses off. :laugh:


:rofl:

It actually inspired me to try and eat more locally.

[Lisa]

I have a recipe (somewhere) for a bread machine Wonder equivalent bread. It uses potato flakes and evaporated milk and is really quite good.

Doesn't matter.

He likes the crappy cheap white bread from the store.


I have made homemade white bread.

I am sloooowly trying to change his habits.

[Rebecca]

:rant:

Is there a petition or something?


/All the sudden all worked up about thisI try to vote with the almighty dollar. I avoid purchasing products that have it. I don't do this 100%, as I am not naturally a devoted person :D , but we do pretty well. It's why I want to get back to making most everything.

But there ARE products out there that don't have it. Just not with the name nabsico or kraft, etc etc.

[taragunner]

I have that book. It's waiting for me. I'm afraid to read it, afraid I'm just going to get really pisses off. :laugh:
I have this on hold at the library too.

I wish I could get Dan into reading labels and see what he's putting into himself and his family. :(

His rationale? "I ate anything I wanted and I turned out ok".

[Rebecca]

Doesn't matter.

He likes the crappy cheap white bread from the store.


I have made homemade white bread.

I am sloooowly trying to change his habits.keep it up. Truly. Dave's tastes have really changed over the last few years. And, amazingly, he's almost MORE worked up about HFCS than I am. Which is so funny to me. He doesn't get worked up about much. :laugh:

[Lisa]

He sees the Juicy Juice commercials with the gloopy HFCS in them. I think that is kinda eye opening.

I am not saying that I am the best eater. I had Tootsie Rolls for breakfast.

But, I am just realizing what it is all in. Crazy.

[Tina]

I'm guessing the HFCS isn't the scariest thing to make it's way into bologna. :laugh:

But I agree, it's everywhere. And it's like crack.

[Amy]

:( It really frustrates me. I believe that it is added because it is addictive and they need us to buy their crap to stay in business.

Rebecca's bread recipe is REALLY good. 2 of my kids have chosen it over Costco white bread (which, BTW is HFCS free) when given the choice. The other two are going to have to learn to like it (they haven't even tried it :rolleyes: ).

[Rebecca]

I'm guessing the HFCS isn't the scariest thing to make it's way into bologna. :laugh:

I know you are joking, :D, but to get serious on you, I think it may be. We are all very used to not eating parts of animals that aren't pretty, but until recently, people would not waste any part of the animal and it was really ok to eat the less desirable parts. There is nothing wrong with the meat off the face of a pig. It just doesn't sound good, mostly because we are so disconnected from our food. We don't want to think about where it came from or what it really is.

Face meat is meat. It's not chemically altered genetically modified once resembled-food food.

And people get worked up about eating insects, but really, there are lots of people in this world who eat them as a regular source of protein.

I'm not saying I really desire to eat face meat or insects, but how is it that we have decided that things that have no nutritional value is food, and other things, which could potentially feed us, are not?

[Lisa]

:sick:

Nice post.

[Amy]

:killingme Lisa!

[Amy]

One more plug for Rebecca's bread. It is very much like store-bought bread...the texture is very nice.

[Tina]

Face meat? *faint*

But I totally agree. I'm a junk food addict - you saw my pathetic rant earlier. I'm a junkie and it sucks.

I try to pick healthier, more natural things, but it seems like it's a neverending battle to get real food.

[Lisa]

I can totally understand HFCS being in Little Debbies and fruit snacks and that crap.

But to sneak it into everyday crap and pass it off as healthy? :nono:

(not that white bread and bologna is healthy)

I bet if I look at my granola bars it is in there. And the oatmeal.

[Amy]

Lisa, ITA. It pisses.me.off. when foods that are pretending to be health foods have HFCS in them. Energy bars are a perfect example.

[Amy]

For sure in granola bars, but even Power Bars have it. :nono:

[Tina]

You know what I think is a real struggle? Sometimes real, natural ingredients have a lot more calories than fakey substitutes. When you're overweight, which do you choose? I can use real olive oil based dressing on my salad for 200 calories, or fat-free crap for 30 calories.

I don't like eating artificial sweetner, but I eat a ton of it to save calories. I would take a Diet Coke over a glass of orange juice every time. But is that the healthy thing to do?

It's so confusing. Anybody have any thoughts on that?

ETA: Of course, I wonder if all the chemicals and crap that I eat to save on calories could be contributing to my migraines. (That's always in the back of my mind.)

[Lisa]

We all just need to eat perfectly balanced slop ala Matrix.

[Mrs Sarah]

Rebecca's bread recipe is REALLY good. 2 of my kids have chosen it over Costco white bread (which, BTW is HFCS free) when given the choice. The other two are going to have to learn to like it (they haven't even tried it :rolleyes: ).

Is this recipe posted somewhere?

[taragunner]

That's kind of what the Schwarzbein principle is based on. Dr. Schwarzbein is an endocrinologist who argues we're damaging our adrenal glands and our metabolisms by using things not found in nature. Like margarine, artificial sweetners, synthetic hormones, diet drinks, caffeine, etc. (That doesn't mean she advocates drinking Cokes of course... ) No white flour, white rice, etc.

I wish I could get 100% on board with her plan. I can't do without my birth control and coffee though.

She basically has a low carb plan which does not advocate ketosis.

[Rebecca]

I do. /big surprise

I know I've got a big ass, and some may say that I should be eating the diet stuff, but I can't. I'm done filling myself and my family with chemicals.

I know that book French Women Don't Get Fat got a lot of bad press, but one thing I did appreciate was the fact that she pressed the point that if you eat REAL food, you don't need as much. If you eat nutrient-poor food, you have to eat a larger quantity of food to get the same nutritional value from a nutrient-rich food.

[Lisa]

Is this recipe posted somewhere?

Yup. In the recipe box. It was bumped today, so if you hit today's posts you should be able to find it.

[Lizz]

But WHY does it have to be so F'n expensive??????????

[Lisa]

I should read that French Women book.

[Rebecca]

Ok, my last post makes it seem like I think we should be eating piddly amounts of food...I don't. But I do know that it's the crap I can sit and eat for hours on end. And it's not just the fact that the food has no nutritional value. IMNSHO, HFCS is the root of the evil. Atkins said it--sugar makes us eat more. And HFCS is sugar on crack.

[Rebecca]

But WHY does it have to be so F'n expensive??????????
It doesn't. I'm not saying I don't have a big grocery bill, I do. I splurge on good food.

But if you avoid the pre-packaged stuff, and make more things at home, you CAN do it on a budget.

[Lizz]

Ok, my last post makes it seem like I think we should be eating piddly amounts of food...I don't. But I do know that it's the crap I can sit and eat for hours on end. And it's not just the fact that the food has no nutritional value. IMNSHO, HFCS is the root of the evil. Atkins said it--sugar makes us eat more. And HFCS is sugar on crack.

It's so true. Now that I'm on the "whatever is on sale diet" I'm a bottomless pit. :cry:

I'm not looking for pity. There are steps I can take to help myself...I'm just not there yet.

[taragunner]

I do. /big surprise

I know I've got a big ass, and some may say that I should be eating the diet stuff, but I can't. I'm done filling myself and my family with chemicals.

I know that book French Women Don't Get Fat got a lot of bad press, but one thing I did appreciate was the fact that she pressed the point that if you eat REAL food, you don't need as much. If you eat nutrient-poor food, you have to eat a larger quantity of food to get the same nutritional value from a nutrient-rich food.

Also Europeans have a totally different style of eating. Americans want big portions and want them fast. Dinner done within a half hour. As opposed to the French. Small portions, in courses, with time to savor and actually taste what you're eating.

Dan and I went out to a nice Italian restaurant with the kids one night. All they did was complain about the time in between courses. I tried to explain to them this wasn't Chili's, this is how real food is served. :rolleyes:

[Lisa]

:stars:

[Phoebe]

HFCS, like Alie said, is super inexpensive. It also tastes sweeter than refined sugar, therefore, manufacturers can use less. SO - since it's A) less expensive and B) can be an ingredient that can be used sparingly, it becomes even THAT much more inexpensive.

The reason it is in baked goods is to retain moisture (as sugar would normally do) which extends shelf life. It doesn't necessarily add "sweetness". In other savory foods, it adds a certain "mouth-feel" and body to which we have grown accustomed. The thing that chaps my hide is that the more chemicals added to a product, the more chemicals are needed to mask the chemical taste and mouth-feel.

[Lisa]

After making bread here, I was shocked when I read the ingredients.

[Tina]

Another theory I find interesting is that artifical sweetener doesn't register with our bodies as sugar, so when we have a sweet craving, artificial sweetener doesn't satisfy it. Do you know what I mean? Artifical sweetener just makes you crave more sweets, but supposedly real sugar satisfies you and tells your body when to stop. Something like that.

[Lizz]

Speaking of chemicals....I had some Red Zingers today. I'm sure, not a single natural ingredient in them.

[Kate]

I know you are joking, :D, but to get serious on you, I think it may be. We are all very used to not eating parts of animals that aren't pretty, but until recently, people would not waste any part of the animal and it was really ok to eat the less desirable parts. There is nothing wrong with the meat off the face of a pig. It just doesn't sound good, mostly because we are so disconnected from our food. We don't want to think about where it came from or what it really is.

Face meat is meat. It's not chemically altered genetically modified once resembled-food food.

And people get worked up about eating insects, but really, there are lots of people in this world who eat them as a regular source of protein.

I'm not saying I really desire to eat face meat or insects, but how is it that we have decided that things that have no nutritional value is food, and other things, which could potentially feed us, are not?


:love: :love: :love:

:word:

I (obviously) agree 100%

[Rebecca]

Speaking of chemicals....I had some Red Zingers today. I'm sure, not a single natural ingredient in them.
:D

[Tina]

You guys (especially Rebecca) always get me so fired up! :laugh: I was looking into organic produce yesterday, and now I'm wondering if I can come up with a healthy diet that doesn't include artificial stuff. (But will still satisfy my huge appetite.)

Hmm.

[Lizz]

Another theory I find interesting is that artifical sweetener doesn't register with our bodies as sugar, so when we have a sweet craving, artificial sweetener doesn't satisfy it. Do you know what I mean? Artifical sweetener just makes you crave more sweets, but supposedly real sugar satisfies you and tells your body when to stop. Something like that.

I read that women who drink diet soda generally gain more weight t han those who don't....for that reason. AND the reason that they think "hey, I had a diet soda, I can afford to eat this cookie."

[taragunner]

Another theory I find interesting is that artifical sweetener doesn't register with our bodies as sugar, so when we have a sweet craving, artificial sweetener doesn't satisfy it. Do you know what I mean? Artifical sweetener just makes you crave more sweets, but supposedly real sugar satisfies you and tells your body when to stop. Something like that.
I read that any sweet taste, artificial or not, propagates more sweets cravings. This is definitely true for me.

[Tina]

I mean, because people used to cook all natural 50 years ago, right? Now we've got diet versions of everything and people are fatter than ever.

[Lizz]

:D

I hadn't had breakfast and the package was on sale at the bread outlet. :D

[Phoebe]

I LOVE Pork Cheek. EXTREMELY tender. :D

[Rebecca]

Another theory I find interesting is that artifical sweetener doesn't register with our bodies as sugar, so when we have a sweet craving, artificial sweetener doesn't satisfy it. Do you know what I mean? Artifical sweetener just makes you crave more sweets, but supposedly real sugar satisfies you and tells your body when to stop. Something like that.
I don't know about that theory, but I'm not disputing it. I know that if I consume artificial sweetners, I don't feel good. I get shaky and hyper and feel yucky.

[Phoebe]

Sure - fats and protein are satiating. HFCS is not. Plain and simple.

[Rebecca]

I read that women who drink diet soda generally gain more weight t han those who don't....for that reason. AND the reason that they think "hey, I had a diet soda, I can afford to eat this cookie."
I've heard that, too. :agree:

[Rebecca]

I mean, because people used to cook all natural 50 years ago, right? Now we've got diet versions of everything and people are fatter than ever.
YES!

This is what I think in a nutshell!!

[Lizz]

I went to the mex. grocery yesterday to pick up some cheese. I was going to pick up some chorizo for Ian because he loves it. Read the ingredients and put it back down in shock. Salivary glands, lymph nodes, tongue, cheek, etc.


/interjects more nonsensical personal anecdotes into the thread

[Tina]

You should never read the ingredients on sausage. :nono:

[Kate]

I have been focusing on health vs wieght and it is a big shift in thinking.

I still drink diet coke. But that is the one chemical I am having a hard time letting go of.

But I decided (other then diet coke) that sugar in moderation is better then chemicals.

I would rather have my mouth adjust to the taste of no butter then use chemicals (like ff-butter spray)

[Lizz]

Usually it says "pork" or something. I never breaks it down....now I know why.

[Rebecca]

You guys (especially Rebecca) always get me so fired up! :laugh: I was looking into organic produce yesterday, and now I'm wondering if I can come up with a healthy diet that doesn't include artificial stuff. (But will still satisfy my huge appetite.)

Hmm.I'm all fired up now, too. :rofl: :D But I'm glad for it, I need to start eating better again. And feeding my family better. I was in a deep hole of grief, but I'm climbing out and it's time to get back to the business of my life. :getyou:/tj, sorta

[Kate]

Also we lead sedintary lives now.

[Rebecca]

I went to the mex. grocery yesterday to pick up some cheese. I was going to pick up some chorizo for Ian because he loves it. Read the ingredients and put it back down in shock. Salivary glands, lymph nodes, tongue, cheek, etc.


/interjects more nonsensical personal anecdotes into the threadDespite what I wrote, I'm not ready for that either.

[Kate]

I used to eat butternut squash with globs of butter and brown sugar, now i love it plain.

[Tina]

Also we lead sedintary lives now.

So true.

I think I'm coming to terms with the fact that because my normal life involves almost no movement (really) that I'm going to have to carve out a good hour, at least, every day for exercising. There's just no way around it. My regular lifestyle is just not active enough, at all.

I love these threads where I learn so much and you guys help me work out issues I've been struggling with and suddenly everything just makes so much sense. :love:

[Kate]

oh-- after the omnivore's book I wanted to find grass fed beef.

I realized that Rob hunts deer and I never use it. gulp. I told him to get 2 this year and we would use the meat.

no hormones, no antibiotics.

:pray: I hope I can make it taste good

[Tina]

I'm not a big fan of venison, but Bryan gets one about every other year. I always feel good about eating it, health-wise, but meh on the taste.

[Rebecca]

ETA: Of course, I wonder if all the chemicals and crap that I eat to save on calories could be contributing to my migraines. (That's always in the back of my mind.)
I missed this. While I really don't know what is the cause of your migraines, I do think this is a valid thing to look at. :hug:

[taragunner]

Grassfed beef is soooooo good. I bought some from Lasater Grasslands Beef after reading Fast Food Nation.

It was cost prohibitive, as the shipping cost as much as the meat I bought.

I would recommend that beef to anyone though. Another environmentally and socially conscious farm, too. They don't kill natural predators on their land, and they rotate their grazing to keep the land sustainable.

Lasatergrasslandsbeef.com

[Amy]

Rebecca, have you heard the radio spot promoting sugar? :D It made me think of you.

[Phoebe]

Dana Carpender's book How I Gave Up My Low-Fat Diet and Lost Forty Pounds goes into all of the scientific stuff.

[Rebecca]

oh-- after the omnivore's book I wanted to find grass fed beef.

I realized that Rob hunts deer and I never use it. gulp. I told him to get 2 this year and we would use the meat.

no hormones, no antibiotics.

:pray: I hope I can make it taste good
I was on a big grass-fed kick a couple of years ago--when there was all that ecoli stuff going on. I thought about buying a cow (or half a cow), but didn't. Maybe I will look into it again. I wonder if I can talk David into it...:laugh:

[Rebecca]

Grassfed beef is soooooo good. I bought some from Lasater Grasslands Beef after reading Fast Food Nation.

It was cost prohibitive, as the shipping cost as much as the meat I bought.

I would recommend that beef to anyone though. Another environmentally and socially conscious farm, too. They don't kill natural predators on their land, and they rotate their grazing to keep the land sustainable.

Lasatergrasslandsbeef.com:rock:

[Rebecca]

Rebecca, have you heard the radio spot promoting sugar? :D It made me think of you.
I don't think I have. :rofl: I'm all for sugar. :right:

[Phoebe]

Yup - my "vegetarian" relatives will eat that type of meat. Better for the environment, better for the animals, etc.

[Phoebe]

Sugar is not bad. It's natural. It's the amount we eat that is not healthy for us. (has that been said already?)

[Amy]

I don't think I have. :rofl: I'm all for sugar. :right:

I decided to relax about baking with "real" sugar after hearing it. *easily swayed by the media* :D

Although, I do think I'm going to experiment with using honey and natural sweeteners. /holly homemaker

[Rebecca]

Sugar is not bad. It's natural. It's the amount we eat that is not healthy for us. (has that been said already?)
Nope.

And I agree. :D

[Rebecca]

I decided to relax about baking with "real" sugar after hearing it. *easily swayed by the media* :D

Although, I do think I'm going to experiment with using honey and natural sweeteners. /holly homemaker
:love:

[Rebecca]

Can you tell this is a subject I have passion about? :indiff:

[Amy]

I really don't want to fluck up my kids nutritionally. It's so hard to know the right things to do. But, I'm continually working on it.

[Phoebe]

Well - today, KFC said it's going to phase out artificial transfats out of their restaurants.

[Phoebe]

I, personally, don't buy into the conspiracy theory ("they" are pumping it into everything so we'll get addicted and buy more - blah blah blah). There are so many other variables - as someone pointed out - like simple, daily movement. That is something we, as Americans, do NOT do.

[Amy]

Not long ago, my family depended a lot more on fast foods. When I took my kids out of school, we naturally transitioned into more homemade meals. I guess because I'm less stressed and have more time. :dunno:

Fast food is a treat now. We eat it very rarely. Once a month, at the most. uhh...not counting Costco hotdogs and pizza. :D

[Kate]

I am pretty passionate about it too.

I just want to the kids to grow up eating real food with nutritional value and varied tastes.

wanna know my other kick not based in any science?

I hate multi-vitamens and alsmot refuse to let the kids have them. :blush: It drives Rob NUTS. I think (again, not based on much fact here) that vitamens need to be in real food still attached to fiber strands or as part of the carbohydrate for our bodies to use well. I think if they eat a balanced diet (and they do) the don't need any damn Flinstones[/thread jack over]

[Tina]

Great. Now I have to find organic beef and poultry too. :laugh:

[Amy]

I don't give my kids vitamins. :dunno:

[Phoebe]

I can understand that thinking, Kate. However, I'm not sure if that's really possible these days - unless everything you purchase and eat is organic, "natural", etc. I think the production - or over-production - of some food stuffs deplete what nutritional value it would normally have. I'm not sure if the majority of soil where so much of Americas produce is vitamin and mineral rich enough any longer.

Of course - that could be all-in-my-head bunk.

[Amy]

*pulls organically sweetened, whole wheat, flax, pumpkin, chocolate chip muffins out of the oven* :D

[Tina]

I just found this article on the most important things to buy organic - interesting.

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/extras/article.aspx?storyid=31322


It can be expensive buying everything organic. On average, organic foods cost about 50 percent more than conventional foods.There are organic versions of just about everything available. Dr. Roberts said 6 organic foods are worth the extra money.

Number 1: Milk.
According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, organic cattle can't be given antibiotics, feed from animal byproducts or hormones.
Consumer Reports says studies suggest synthetic growth hormones may be carcinogenic and exposure may be linked to the early onset of puberty.
Dr. Carol Roberts/Wellness Works Medical Doctor “These hormones make a cow produce anywhere from 10 to 100 times than it would without those hormones. They are breast stimulating hormones."”

Number 2: Organic meat and eggs.
Consumer Reports says you'll greatly reduce your chances of contracting mad cow disease by eating organic, grain fed beef. Organic cattle is not allowed to eat animal by-products.
Consumer Reports also says conventionally raised chicken can eat feed that contains neurotoxins, such as arsenic or heavy metals.
Certified organic chickens eat organic feed.
Dr. Carol Roberts, Wellness Works Medical Doctor “Their eggs produce better quality B vitamins. They're a higher quality of protein. They have better essentials fats and they don't contain hormones, pesticides or antibiotics."”Number 3: Organic baby food.
Dr. Carol Roberts, Wellness Works Medical Doctor “Children are especially vulnerable to pesticides because they're so small so the same amount of pesticides will be even more damaging to a child, especially in certain stages of development."

Number 4: Organic grapes.
Imported grapes may have banned pesticides.
Dr. Carol Roberts/Wellness Works Medical Doctor “We're still selling DDT to other countries even though it's been banned here so why bring that back here and put it in your system."

Number 5: Organic apples
Dr. Carol Roberts/Wellness Works Medical Doctor "Apples are a very good source of nutrients but apples are very high in pesticides. And they're also usually waxed when they're conventional."

Number 6: Organic spinach
Dr. Carol Roberts/Wellness Works Medical Doctor “Washing won't make much of a difference. It still doesn't get off all the pesticides. They have up to ten different pesticides in one sample of spinach”

[Amy]

Rebecca how much does the organic milk cost at Costco?

[Phoebe]

Strawberries are up there too - but I forget why.

[Tina]

I think the thinner the skin, the worse it is.

[Kate]

*pulls organically sweetened, whole wheat, flax, pumpkin, chocolate chip muffins out of the oven* :D

:heart:

yup-- that is how I want to feed my kids (and pretty much do) I want them to enjoy food, it is a pleasure to eat great food. But I also want it to feed thier growing bodies.

[Phoebe]

Ahhh - perhaps. I also think it has to do with the washing - they are so bumpy and seedy.

[Phoebe]

:D We just pulled a loaf of Kate's bread out of the oven.

[Kate]

I need to start the milk :cry:

My eggs are organic (from MIL)

some of my produce is. But most isn't :(

[Tina]

The organic farm near me has lots of veggies and greens and a little citrus, but that's it. I'm going to have to find somewhere else to get the rest of my fruit.

[Phoebe]

You know - humans are the only animal that drinks milk after infancy. It's not needed, actually. /could never be THAT hardcore.

[Kate]

I love dairy.

[Amy]

:D If I could have chickens (for eggs), I totally would. My kids had so much fun helping my dad with his chickens and collecting eggs.

[Allison]

You know - humans are the only animal that drinks milk after infancy. It's not needed, actually. /could never be THAT hardcore.

Mac did goats milk. And her reasoning made sense to me.

[Amy]

mmm...cheese.

I don't drink milk, but I use cream. My kids drink milk, but stopped when I switched them to soy. :D

[Amy]

Although, we've been back to regular milk for a long time. Austin gets constipated when he drinks it...and apparently so does Alex. :nono:

[Phoebe]

I bought my SIL a soy milk machine for Christmas one year. That thing ROCKS but is very, very noisy :D

[Tina]

How much should I be expecting to pay for grass-fed beef? I found a place online that ships for free, but a top sirloin is almost $20 a pound!

[Phoebe]

Whoa.

[Kate]

:dunno: Tell Brian to go get a deer.

[Lisa]

I love you guys.

[Kate]

we love you too :D

[Amy]

Us crazy peeps have to stick together. :D

[Lisa]

*as I get ready to go eat fried bar food* :indiff:

[Amy]

:laugh: You do what you can.

[Phoebe]

Dude - I can't TELL you how many mini Snickers bars I've eaten today. :indiff:

(AND a glass of non-organic milk)

[Lisa]

I really can't control what B eats. I am sure they eat less than stellar at his Dad's house.

I wish I could. Plus, he is so picky.

But, I can not buy the fruit snacks and crap for him here.

*sigh*

This is going to be a hard thing to try to change.

[Amy]

Just make small changes. You don't have to freak him out. :D Also, having him help in the kitchen can help.

[Lisa]

He likes the learning to cook thing.

He won't tell his Dad or the bitch though, they make fun of him.

:rocks:

[Amy]

:nono: FOTY and GFOTY.

[Phoebe]

They make FUN of him?????

:rocks:

[Rebecca]

Rebecca how much does the organic milk cost at Costco?
$7.99 for 3 half gallons.

[Lisa]

:agree:

Last year, when I was canning, I let him make him own grape jelly using grape juice. He LOVED it. He took it home and they teased him I guess.

I asked him if he wanted to take some pretzels that we made home and he wouldn't. I finally got it out of him why.

[Phoebe]

At my local natural grocery, a gallon is a LITTLE less than $5.

[Rebecca]

That's such crap, Lisa. :pissed:

[Phoebe]

What an asshole.

[Amy]

$7.99 for 3 half gallons.


:indiff: Damn.

I'm going to try it, though. The next thing I'm working on is getting my kids off of cereal for breakfast. I'd at least like to cut down on it. That should cut down on the amount of milk they drink (or waste really, because they dump most of it down the sink).

[taragunner]

Jerks.

New subject - grass fed beef can be expensive.

[Rebecca]

:indiff: Damn.

I'm going to try it, though. The next thing I'm working on is getting my kids off of cereal for breakfast. I'd at least like to cut down on it. That should cut down on the amount of milk they drink (or waste really, because they dump most of it down the sink).My kids dump a lot of milk down the sink, too, because they have been pouring too much on their cereal. It makes me mad, because it's expensive. But now that I'm making breakfast every day for them, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Rebecca]

Jerks.

New subject - grass fed beef can be expensive.
Yes it can. :agree:

[Amy]

:indiff: I swear I didn't steal that idea from you...I was already thinking about it.

[Rebecca]

Amy, how much does non-organic milk cost?

[Rebecca]

:indiff: I swear I didn't steal that idea from you...I was already thinking about it.
:rofl: What idea?

[Rebecca]

And I feel the same way about some of the things I've been newly implementing. :laugh:

[Amy]

Amy, how much does non-organic milk cost?

$4.25 for two gallons. I guess it's not really that much less, especially when you consider how much I am spending on food anyway.

The cooking breakfast idea. I've already been working on it. I'm not a copy-cat. :indiff: Not this time, anyway.

[Rebecca]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.:D /me, usually talking to Anne about Emily or Emily about Megan :D

[Kate]

:heart:

I have been leading my kids towards eggs and ww toast for breakfast.

I am hoping that the protien in the eggs and fiber in the toast + a few berries (or cubes of cantalope or small serving of what ever fruit is in the house) holds them well until lunch.

Manda has breakfast at 6:45 and doesn't eat lunch until 12:30.

[Rebecca]

Wow, she must be starving by lunch! :eek:

[Mrs Sarah]

Oh, BTW Dar - I want your wonder bread recipe too. :)

[Kate]

:agree: she is. That is why I try to do a big breakfast.

She is so easy to cook for-- she loves spinach in her scrambled eggs.

So 1 egg, 1 white (she sees me make mine like that so she likes it) with a handful of frozen spinach scrambled in + 1 piece of ww bread with homemade black raspberry jam and about 1/2 c of cantalope was this mornings breakfast.

[Phoebe]

Poor Amanda! :eek:

Gallon of Organic Milk - $4.89
Gallon of Non-Organic Milk - $2.29

:indiff:

[Lisa]

Wait.

What is wrong with milk now?

*panic*

Does it have HFCS too?

[Rebecca]

From Tina's post earlierIt can be expensive buying everything organic. On average, organic foods cost about 50 percent more than conventional foods.There are organic versions of just about everything available. Dr. Roberts said 6 organic foods are worth the extra money.

Number 1: Milk.
According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, organic cattle can't be given antibiotics, feed from animal byproducts or hormones.
Consumer Reports says studies suggest synthetic growth hormones may be carcinogenic and exposure may be linked to the early onset of puberty.
Dr. Carol Roberts/Wellness Works Medical Doctor “These hormones make a cow produce anywhere from 10 to 100 times than it would without those hormones. They are breast stimulating hormones."”

Number 2: Organic meat and eggs.
Consumer Reports says you'll greatly reduce your chances of contracting mad cow disease by eating organic, grain fed beef. Organic cattle is not allowed to eat animal by-products.
Consumer Reports also says conventionally raised chicken can eat feed that contains neurotoxins, such as arsenic or heavy metals.
Certified organic chickens eat organic feed.
Dr. Carol Roberts, Wellness Works Medical Doctor “Their eggs produce better quality B vitamins. They're a higher quality of protein. They have better essentials fats and they don't contain hormones, pesticides or antibiotics."”Number 3: Organic baby food.
Dr. Carol Roberts, Wellness Works Medical Doctor “Children are especially vulnerable to pesticides because they're so small so the same amount of pesticides will be even more damaging to a child, especially in certain stages of development."

Number 4: Organic grapes.
Imported grapes may have banned pesticides.
Dr. Carol Roberts/Wellness Works Medical Doctor “We're still selling DDT to other countries even though it's been banned here so why bring that back here and put it in your system."

Number 5: Organic apples
Dr. Carol Roberts/Wellness Works Medical Doctor "Apples are a very good source of nutrients but apples are very high in pesticides. And they're also usually waxed when they're conventional."

Number 6: Organic spinach
Dr. Carol Roberts/Wellness Works Medical Doctor “Washing won't make much of a difference. It still doesn't get off all the pesticides. They have up to ten different pesticides in one sample of spinach”

[Rebecca]

I have girls...and a history of breast cancer in my family...it makes me nervous, so :dunno:

[Angie]

Wow...we just had some conversations at work about this stuff lately.

Courtney saw some lamb at the store the other day and was totally grossed out. She said she wants to become a vegetarian. :laugh:

And, like you Kate, I try to get them to eat eggs and ww, which they love. But, unfortunately with our crazy weekday mornings, they only get that on the weekend. :(

[Lisa]

Great.

:rocks:

This is just too much to take in.

[Rebecca]

Great.

:rocks:

This is just too much to take in.Honestly, I've been thinking about all these things for YEARS (I graduated in 96, so 10 yrs) and it's STILL too much for me. :cry: I'm trying to do baby steps...

[Lisa]

Milk.

How, how how how, can they fuck up the milk?

I mean, is it necessary? NO.

Why mess with people?

[Chrissy]

I'll just have Joseph grow up eating like his dad. Me, I like my food.

[Rebecca]

They fuck with the cows, they fuck with the milk. :dunno: A bfing mom tries to avoid eating things and taking drugs that might affect the milk. How is a cow any different?

[Michele]

It would be better to try and find a local dairy farmer that would sell you raw milk...since pastuerization kilss part of the vitamins and makes the major part of raw milks calcium insoluble.

But that's obviously work. :indiff: And it has to be used in two days after taking it out of the freezer.

[Niki]

I have been buying organic milk faithfully for the past 6 (or is it 4?) months? After doing my research, I will never, never go back to the other kind.

I also only eat organic apples and buy organic potatoes for B. The egg thing has shocked me and I'm switching as soon as we use what's in the fridge. Baby steps. I also have been researching coffee and it's shocking how much pesticide is used in the ones not grown organically! That's on the list too.

My GF looooves Splenda and I gave her what's left in the house yesterday. I will have regular sugar or butter if I need it. No more crap.

It's so frikkin' hard! :cry:

[Michele]

My kids barely drink milk. Emma never does. She hates it. And I don't see a reason to make them.

They can get calcium from green vegetables, nuts, Brown Rice, Black beans, oranges are good. Etc, etc.

I go heavy on nuts and seeds with them.

I also buy the fortified orange juice.
They do eat yogurt and cheese, though.

[Dar]

I don't like milk. I never have.

Unless it has chocolate in it. :blush:

[Dar]

Milk doesn't like me, either.

[Michele]

Know what's weird? I used to LOVE milk. I would drink a gallon every couple days and when I was pregnant with Jordan I lost my interest in it. :dunno:

[Niki]

I could live without milk for the rest of my life.

My husband? Perish the thought!

[Laura]

I could live without milk for the rest of my life.
Me too!

[Phoebe]

There is absolutely NO reason for humans to drink the milk of another animal. None.

[Rebecca]

True story. But I lurve it. :eat:

[Rebecca]

Actually, tho, some people depend on it. There are people who own an animal and the keep it alive and live off it's blood and it's milk. :dunno:

[Niki]

I just read my organic thread from April. Apparently I learnt about the eggs then, too! :laugh: :slow:

[Rebecca]

:rofl: I forget stuff all the time, too. :slow: :D

[Danielle]

I love milk.

[Laura]

True story. But I lurve it. :eat:
My entire family LOVES milk. They could drink a gallon a day. The ONLY time I have milk is in cereal which is maybe twice yearly!

[Chrissy]

Actually, tho, some people depend on it. There are people who own an animal and the keep it alive and live off it's blood and it's milk. :dunno:
yup, the Scottish crofters used to use the cows milk and mix in some of it's blood during the winter when food was scarce.

[Laura]

Ewwww.

[Kate]

I love milk. So does the family.

[Moke]

MMMMM. I am a milk drinker. And I lose weight better when I incorporate dairy like milk and yogurt.

[Phoebe]

I love milk, too. And cheese?? What is life without cheese?

I'm eating a fairly "healthy" breakfast this morning - thanks to this thread.

Turkey Bacon
2 eggs (fried in olive oil)
2 slices of Kate's whole wheat bread with my SIL homemade pear sauce
Sliced canned peaches (drained and washed off heavy syrup)
already downed 32 oz of water
(coffee with artificial creamer :blush: )

[Michele]

Cheese is my downfall.

[Laura]

I love cheese!

[Lisa]

This house can not survive without cheese.

[Kate]

((((cheese))))

there is no way is getting rid of cheese.

Michele-- selling raw milk in Ohio is illegal.

We had an Amish farmer arrested for giving it away to a police officer pretending to be a hungry man asking to buy a bit of milk. :rocks:

It went to court and the Amish farmer lost. He is not even allowed to give away raw milk. He said it violated his religious freedom, and if he saw a hungry man he would share what he had. The court told him they would take him farm if he violated the law again. It was big news because rarely will Amish stand up for something like this and take it court.

:rocks:

[Lizz]

((((cheese))))

there is no way is getting rid of cheese.

Michele-- selling raw milk in Ohio is illegal.

We had an Amish farmer arrested for giving it away to a police officer pretending to be a hungry man asking to buy a bit of milk. :rocks:

It went to court and the Amish farmer lost. He is not even allowed to give away raw milk. He said it violated his religious freedom, and if he saw a hungry man he would share what he had. The court told him they would take him farm if he violated the law again. It was big news because rarely will Amish stand up for something like this and take it court.

:rocks:

OMG!!!!!! :cry: That is the worst story. A STING operation on the Amish. While pretending to be needy. Nice. Don't you have some crackheads to catch or something :rocks:

[Lisa]

OMG!!!!!! :cry: That is the worst story. A STING operation on the Amish. While pretending to be needy. Nice. Don't you have some crackheads to catch or something :rocks:

:word:

[Mrs Sarah]

WTH?! That is insane!

[Kate]

yup-- I thought it was crazy. I was pissed off.

from cbs.com our tax dollars hard at work :jack:

MOUNT HOPE, Ohio - The state nabbed Arlie Stutzman in a rare sting, sending an undercover agent to his farm to buy - not drugs - but milk.

Now, he's taking the unusual step, for an Amish man at least, of fighting a law that he says violates his religious beliefs because it prohibits him from sharing milk he produces with others.

"While I can and I have food, I'll share it," Stutzman said. "Do unto others what you would have others do unto you."

Stutzman is more comfortable in a pair of overalls on his hilly 100-acre farm than in a courtroom full of lawyers. But the dairy farmer is headed to Holmes County Common Pleas Court on Friday to testify about his view.

"I'm not much of a talker. For sure, not in public," he said.

Last September, a man came to Stutzman's weathered, two-story farmhouse, located in a pastoral region in northeast Ohio that has the world's largest Amish settlement. The man asked for milk.

Stutzman was leery, but agreed to fill up the man's plastic container from a 250-gallon stainless steel tank in the milkhouse.

After the cool, creamy white, unpasteurized milk flowed into the container, the man, an undercover agent from the Ohio Department of Agriculture, gave Stutzman two dollars and left.

The department revoked Stutzman's license in February for selling milk in an unlabeled container. In April, he got back his license, which allows him to sell to cheese houses and dairies, with a warning not to sell raw milk to consumers again.

The state could have cited him for distributing raw milk, but rather than have the milk tested, it chose to cite him with the more obvious charge. The state prohibits the distribution of raw milk, whether it's sold or shared.

"You can't just give milk away to someone other then yourself. It's a violation of the law," said LeeAnne Mizer, spokeswoman for the department.

Organizations from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to the American Dairy Association say raw milk contains health risks because it has not been heated to kill bacteria, such as E. coli.

Even though the state returned his license, regulators have asked Judge Thomas D. White to formally order Stutzman, the defendant, to comply with dairy laws. Stutzman says he is fighting the request on principle because he should be able to share his milk.

Stutzman's Amish faith places an emphasis on the community. To preserve their lifestyle, the Amish avoid the use of electricity and automobile ownership, which would allow the outside world to enter unabated into their culture.

The Amish typically don't get involved in politics, unless laws impede their ability to make a living or follow their religious beliefs. Stutzman says he's getting some community support.

"It shows he's not going to be intimidated and he's going to do what he thinks is the right thing," said his attorney, Gary Cox.

Days start early at Stutzman's farm where he's out at 5 a.m. to move the chickens to a fresh grazing spot and by 6 a.m. he's milking his herd 27 cows.

Stutzman, 37, the father of eight, is rail thin and wears the traditional beard with no mustache of a married Amish man.

His farm is an organic operation where the cows graze on the grass and clover in one area, then are moved to another.

The state says they sent the agent to his farm because they received a tip from an anonymous neighbor about raw milk sales.

Stutzman though believes he was targeted because his cows are partly "owned" by a group of 150 families in what's called a herd share agreement. They pay him a fee for the cows and are entitled to a portion of the milk.

The group is led by Christina Trecaso of Copley Township, who along with other group members take turns making the hour-long drive to Stutzman's farm to retrieve milk. They meet at a drop off point to distribute each family's share.

Sales of raw milk are illegal in Ohio and 24 other states. But herd share agreements take advantage of a loophole because the group is buying the cows, not the milk. The state is not challenging Stutzman's herd share agreement.

Groups such as the Weston A. Price Foundation, dedicated to restoring nutrient-dense foods to people's diets, advocate the consumption of raw milk, saying pasteurization diminishes vitamin content and kills beneficial bacteria. Trecaso says it's what has helped keep her two daughters from visiting the doctor in three years.

"It's really rich and creamy and good," she said.

For Stutzman, the herd share agreement gives him an outlet for his extra milk. He also enjoys sharing his product with others who would otherwise not have access to it.

"We know people are deprived of this real food," he said.

[Rebecca]

That is CRAP! :nono:

[Lisa]

That is crap.

[Lisa]

:doofi:

[Kate]

it is total crap.

this is what they spend my tax dollars doing? Hunting down people helping the poor. :rocks:

[Dar]

Remind me not to share a cup of milk with my neighbor. :indiff: :nono:

[Niki]

Remind me not to share a cup of milk with my neighbor. :indiff: :nono:

You don't have a farm so chances are, you won't be sharing raw milk. You can share processed milk. ;)

I looove seing my tax dollars at work. :jack:

[Sheba]

GREAT THREAD!!!! *cheers*

:rocks: stupid sting on Amish farmers!

I've been gearing us toward more vegetarian style for a little while now. We'd been eating way too much meat & it got even worse moving back here to Atlanta when the roomie was screeching for meat at every single meal. I didn't realize until I really started looking at the menu plans I was coming up with :stars:

My appetite has gone WAY down, actually. I'm eating fruits in the mornings or on an empty stomach before dinner. A portion of nuts (walnuts, almonds) or some crunchy peanut butter every day. Beans 2-3 days a week. Brown rice. Lots of root veggies now like potatoes, rutabagas, turnips, garlic, shallots. And then any other veggies like celery, tomatoes, peppers, lettuces, I can stuff in there too :D

My "I'm DONE with this" trigger is starting to come back. It's hard to hit it with veggies but I've had it happen with fruit and especially the few times we've eaten out :sick: usually it's after about 3 bites of whatever it is, if it's heavily spiced or less than half of a quesedia (sp) which is freaking bizarre because I LOVE those & could eat my weight in them? not anymore.

So except for the organic stuff (which I don't do yet) it's alot cheaper to eat without all the processed food, IMHO. Especially if you watch the meat too.

[Sonny]

I, personally, don't buy into the conspiracy theory ("they" are pumping it into everything so we'll get addicted and buy more - blah blah blah). There are so many other variables - as someone pointed out - like simple, daily movement. That is something we, as Americans, do NOT do.


I don't really believe in conspiracy theories, but I DO believe HFCS is in so much food to make us eat/buy more. Exactly the same way the tobacco companyies used nicotine in cigarettes, there's no need for it...

Some of the food that has HFCS isn't even SWEET, so why does it have it? I don't buy the mouth-feel excuse they give us. :nono:


What I want is a list of foods that do NOT contain HFCS. I can't find one online, I find plenty of lists of foods that contain it, but that doesn't help too much. Grocery shopping would be a lot quicker if I knew what I was looking for, not what I am not looking for.

[Niki]

What I want is a list of foods that do NOT contain HFCS. I can't find one online, I find plenty of lists of food that contains it, but that doesn't help too much. Grocery shopping would be a lot quicker if I knew what I was looking for, not what I am not looking for.

:agree: